留德华,毕业后该选择留在德国还是回到中国?

书友讲坛(总第137期)

时间:2020年11月29日(周日)柏林时间10点30-12点30 (北京时间17点30-19:30)

形式:ZOOM 在线讲座

参与人数:32人(分七组)

主题: 留德华,毕业后该选择留在德国还是回到中国?

讨论提纲

1.哪些因素影响了你留德/回国工作的选择?相对另外的选择,你得到了什么,又失去了什么?做了另外选择的同期同学,他现在职场发展怎样?

2.如果现在有重新选择的机会,你会怎样选择?这次疫情对你的选择是否有影响?

3.针对留在德国: 面对国内年迈的父母,你怎么照顾他们?

背景

留德还是回国是留学生心中每隔一段时间就会思考一次的事情。 

参与这场圆桌会的书友大部分都已经工作了,大部分也都有在德国留学的背景。无论是留德还是归国,让他们做出决定的最关键因素是什么呢?

留德派

1.留德的优势

  • 竞争不那么激烈,工作生活平衡,较有时间发展自己的兴趣爱好。

  • 德国工时较短,因此时薪较高。相反,国内996甚至007,工作压力较大,工作时长长。 

  • 在德国做和中国相关的工作,利用自己的华人背景优势。

  • 传统学科,金融和管理等行业的职场培训更专业,对刚入职员工更宽容,培养更好。给新人成长空间同事比较热情来帮忙。

  • 在德国工作需要新人要立马上手做很多,节奏快,学得快,试错的包容性更大。而国内工作试错空间较小。

  • 科研工作:博士培养体系更加成熟。(申请项目/教学) ,国内学术更浮躁 (唯论文论)

2.回国的劣势

  • 回国竞争压力大,假期少请假难。回国机会有可能更少,对于工作城市离家较远的,只能五一,十一假期回家,机票更贵。相反,在德国假期多,30天年假,如果条件允许,每年可以选择回国两次。

  • 国内工作压力很大,至少996,反思国内的压力是否真的能帮助你实现人生理想?

  • 长期在德国,与国内脱节,大多数国内的人脉可能没法真正利用了。

3.留德父母养老解决方案

  • 利用出差的机会,尽量多回国。

  • 希腊,匈牙利买房投资移民

欧盟法条,欧盟国籍的人,在欧盟第二国家比如荷兰比利时居住,可以通过家庭团聚签把父母接过来。荷兰的医保比较低,荷兰医保分住院和平时保险。德国条件比较苛刻。必须有一方不健在了,而且医保随着年龄增长,70岁以上,基本上在1千欧左右。

4.重视个人意愿去生活

德国是一个可以根据个人意愿去生活的地方。可以更不受社会和父母的影响。遵从自己的内心去生活。在德国自由度更高,在国内自由度较低,周末领导会来找你做一些事情。

5.女性在德国更受到保护

男女平等,德国企业都有要求管理层女性的比例(20%)。

在德国产假,休假多,比较容易照顾孩子和家庭

6.回国工作,和同事的人际关系更为复杂

在德国人际间交往较单纯,也有留德华回国工作半年不适应,再回德国工作。

7.如果夫妻一方是德国人,夫妻双方都回国风险很高。

可能不愿意长期在中国工作生活,或者也因为思乡,会两边折腾。

8.未来是开放的,两边都留余地

当下的幸福感很重要,有伴侣的话,视情况来考虑留下或与伴侣一起回国。

对于如何照顾父母,目前没有最优的解决方案,所以两边都留空间。

回国派

1.国内发展迅速

在国内有适合自己的岗位。

留德华工作时也可以留意国内的招聘信息。

分职业,互联网,人工智能等新兴行业,回国更好。

2.毕业要不要立刻回国?

有些人认为一毕业就回去是最好的,也有人认为最好是在德国工作1-2年,积累一些工作经验。

这个问题其实要考虑专业,如果是纯技术专业,毕业后马上回国比较好。如果管理和中德文化交流的工作,积累一段在德国工作经验,了解德国文化,更有利。

也有人工作3-5年,或5-7年后才决定回国

3.父母养老问题

家人希望自己回国

在德国,国内的父母生病或受伤时避免留学生担心,往往最后才让他们让知道。所以担心赚钱也无法弥补亲人相处的损失。

国内在陪伴亲人,就医方面较方便。

4.朋友圈支持

在德国感到不能融入社会,文化隔阂,与同事聊不热络,社交圈较小。

国内信息快,能陪伴家人。

早点回国还能连接以前的人际关系。

5.原有的知识体系需要重新学习

比如装修,装家具等,在德国如果买房一切得自己弄,国内有亲友能帮忙。

6.职场晋升

在德国的职场晋升较慢,国内职场晋升更快。

德国的工作项目受限,纯德语项目或报告比较不会分给外国人。

传统制造业,德国工作更好。

7.在国内的科研环境更好

在德国的生活环境比较松散,竞争动力不足。

国内科研氛围更拼搏,有限资源内,互相合作。

8.海外归国人才引进项目越来越多

条件符合的人才可以申请房补,现金奖励,科研基金等优惠政策。

9.国内生活更便利

喜欢国内的节奏,电子化,无现支付。

快递,餐饮很方便,饮食也较习惯。

在国内的生活机能好,满意程度更高。

国内公共机关办事效率高。

但是前提是在国内可以解决买房的问题和子女养育的压力,大城市的竞争太激烈了。

10.疫情推动做出回国的决定

在疫情期间,感受到自己的不幸福和不开心,担心家人也担心自己,严重影响自己的生活质量。

疫情期间感受到回家的距离,是不止一张机票的距离。

书友经验分享

  • 在德国一定要学会说德语,不然在职场可能会被孤立,语言关一定要过。德国的文化也要了解。

  • 学语言和找工作,一定会需要承担很多压力,要挺住。一边读语言,一边申请工作。

  • 也有一部分的小伙伴读完书想在德国积累点工作经验,因为毕业后直接回去没有经验可能会有就业的压力。而且国外学的用的,在国内还需要适应。

  • 书友认为不用强求一定要融入当地圈子,有自己的小圈子比较重要

  • 在德国工作,德语固然要好,英语也最好不要落下了,在国内有合适的工作时机才能把握。

以下是书友阿南会后补充:

回国焦虑:

1.不同学科行业待遇差异大(国内主要大企业更需要理工科的海归,文科需求不大,极少数欧洲名校工科专业才能享受“精英”待遇)。

2.就业年龄在国内更严苛,尤其对女性(大龄海归30+或35+回去,不愿意去基础岗位和应届生竞争,很多经理级别岗位又不够资历),就会出现高不成低不就的尴尬局面。

3.国内一线城市人才竞争激烈,作为没有名校和名企经历的大龄海归竞争力不大。

4.回国工作如果和德国不挂钩,德语就没有锻炼机会,丢掉是否非常可惜。

5.薪金和贫富差距相对德国大些,国内工薪阶层(大多数普通老百姓)社会认可度和薪金待遇比德国要苛刻,普通人自我认可度较低。

6.还有一点回国焦虑就是回到国内会有一种挫败感,怕亲友认为自己回国是因为在德国没有很好的发展。

留德焦虑:

1.疫情导致德国经济萎靡,航天、餐饮旅游业和汽车业受重创,大财团也纷纷发布裁员计划,没有大公司工作一辈子的稳定说法。

2.德国目前男、女都是67岁以上退休,并且退休金和国内一线退休金水平基本持平,如果年轻时没有额外理财储蓄,晚年将过得很节俭。

3.德国和国内一线城市薪资水平逐渐减少差距,但德国除了买房外,其他生活娱乐成本远高于国内。

4.目前我回国发展的同龄人都很迅速在一线城市大型国、外企找到工作,即使第一份工作起薪不高,但发展和晋升快,在银行的朋友几乎都是经理级别,生娃结婚,在国内银行等大单位,加班并不是常态。我的直观感受是回国比留在德国我的同龄人发展要稍好些。

5.亲朋好友都在国内,有紧急事情可以随时关照,在德国很多时候家人有了事情都瞒着留德华,为了不让海外亲人担心。

6.国内一线城市普通上保险员工看病报销70%以上。

7.在德国待越久,就越贪图安逸,不愿及时跳出温水煮青蛙的困境,因为普通工作很有保障,消磨了斗志。

8.德国华人圈小,社交天花板限制,语言和文化差异导致主流媒体信息获取相对滞后。

9.德国医疗虽然全包,但缺少中医作为补充,很多慢性疾病德国医生不能医治,德国的肢体康复和中医针灸都要自费,语言沟通障碍和相应病例经验缺乏也让我对德国医生缺少信任。

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